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[brent21]

Hi all,

I am new to helis, but not to flying. I have an Esky Belt CP that I haven't flown yet. I was at a new field today and I talked with a local guy that works at the LHS near me. He was telling me that after I sim a lot and do some flying with the Belt CP, that I should get a larger heli. What do you think my best option would be? I have looked at a Trex 600N and the Raptor models, but I don't really know where to focus my attention.

Thanks for the help,

Brent

[Kenny]

Either one of the models you suggested will get you started off. The Raptor has mechanical mixing which is like old school stuff but the model fly's really well. The Align has ccpm mixing which is more up to date. Also, most of the local hobby shops will stock the full range of Align parts. Chances are the Align will be one of the more popular 50 size nitro helicopters at your local field. They may not be the best out there but they are easy to build and pretty forgiving.

You might also check and see if the local club has a heli group in it and talk with someone in person. They should be able to steer you in the right directions and help with setting up the model.

[koolkrabber47]

Originally Posted by Kenny

Either one of the models you suggested will get you started off. The Raptor has mechanical mixing which is like old school stuff but the model fly's really well. The Align has ccpm mixing which is more up to date. Also, most of the local hobby shops will stock the full range of Align parts. Chances are the Align will be one of the more popular 50 size nitro helicopters at your local field. They may not be the best out there but they are easy to build and pretty forgiving.

You might also check and see if the local club has a heli group in it and talk with someone in person. They should be able to steer you in the right directions and help with setting up the model.

Hello, Ken.....i don't want to hijack Brent's thread but, i just wanted to ask you a simular question regarding my next choice of heli.....i currently fly the Heli-Max Axe 400 electric and was wanting to start building my next bird......i've been flying since october, about 8 months and am getting ready to move to the next level.......i prefer to go with .50 size or .90 size nitro or electric would be fine, too.....i've been researching for the last 3 months and had set my mind on the newest Raptor 50 SC but, now i'm not sure because you said it was old technology pretty much......i don't want to waste money but, at the same time, money is not a problem......i want something easy to built with available upgrades and easy parts availability......you seem to hit on the T-rex line, then say they're not the best......this is where you lost me and now i'm a little confused.......my question is, out of all the available lines of heli's, which would you recommend for general sport flying as my 3rd bird.......please don't hold back on this one, as i stated before money is not a problem......i want something bigger than my 400 and was thinking .50-.90 because it would be easier to see and would handle the wind better......i live right on the beach, here in ilwaco,wa. and the wind has been my biggest hurdle, as far as just being able to grab my planes and heli's and just go fly......as you can imagine the beautiful scenery and the nice sunny weather are to die for......if not for the constant 10-15, sometimes 15-20 mph winds, my lil' beach town would be perfect......10-15 doesn't sound like much, but try telling that to my foamies and tiny axe 400.......because of the wind, any time i want to fly, i have to haul aroung my big 3D nitro planks and all the stuff it takes to get them in the air, not the easiest scenario......i think i should mention, as far as Heli's go, i am not really into 3d, as i am with my airplanes......with heli's i prefer a "long" comfortable day's of enjoyable sport flying and take my bird home in one piece.......forward flight, backwards flight, a couple of loops and rolls and eventually some inverted hovers, MAYBE......i know everybody gets caught up in the newest craze(3D) and i think that's great but, me at 48 yrs. old don't want to spend all week repairing for every weekend of flying......what do you think of just jumping up to the .90 and not have to keep trading up all the time......buy it, build once and enjoy it for @ 5 yrs., before i even think about trading it in again???.......please consider all the options carefully and let me know your opinion.....can you give me some plus and minuses as far as what is actually beneficial for each dollar spent......what i mean is, i don't need all the bling,bling(chrome goodies,etc.), i could better spend that money on a good set of sevos or a kickin' ass gyro, something that is actually gonna help my learning curve and not my ego.......let me thank you in advance for any help you might be able to provide and for stepping up and helping the newbies, here on allMYrc.......if or when i do get to a comfortable level with my "big-bird", i promise to pass the favor forward(help somebody else)......Again,Kenny let me thank you for your contribution to this great hobby........sorry for the long response.....(KOOLKRABBER47).......

[Kenny]

Did you run out of breath here? LOL

I’ve been researching for the last 3 months and had set my mind on the newest Raptor 50 SC but, now I’m not sure because you said it was old technology pretty much......

Thunder Tiger/Raptor helicopters have used mechanical mixing for some years. I believe there is a ccpm model that is being released or has been released. So the comment "old school" is a generic term for something that has not changed in a long time. Don't misunderstand me though; the model still fly's very good. In fact that is all I flew for several years.

Brief description of mixing;

Non ccpm heli's is, one servo per function to control the collective and cyclic mixing to the swashplate.

CCPM stands for Collective, Cyclic Pitch Mixing. This is done both mechanically and electronically. Your Helimax should have CCPM 120 degree mixing.

Last one which is been out for relatively a short time is,
Flight Control System, which is the electronic replacement of the flybar. My personal favorite; Not only do you have a mechanical advantage because of less mass to rotate with the rotor head, it is really cool!

you seem to hit on the T-rex line, then say they're not the best......this is where you lost me and now I’m a little confused

The reason I hit on this one is because everywhere I go you see a Trex 450, 500 or 600 size helicopters. Almost every hobby shop I have been in has carried parts for these. In the nitro 50 line of helicopters the Trex 600 is very agile, light weight and easy to build, inexpensive and easy to repair. Over all, a Trex 600 is a fun model to learn with.
There is however other models in my honest opinion that have had more of what I was looking for. Like a Vibe 50. The newest of models just released in a 50 size is the Synergy N5. I would love the opportunity to try this model out. From what I have read and observed in videos this model should prove to be an excellent option.

Now, to jump from a Helimax 400 to a 50 is a really good idea. From a 400 to a 90 size, well you have to ask yourself what it is you want. A large machine equates into more dollars in the build and also the crash. Plus a 90 size model just about triple's the pucker factor. Another thing to consider is the fuel cost, with a 90 size nitro machine you will get about 6 tanks of fun out of a gallon of fuel. With a 50 you will get about 11 tanks or so. With any model, the larger the disc area is, the more stable the helicopter will be.

I prefer to go with .50 sizes or .90 size nitro or electric would be fine

Here is something else to decide on. Electric vs. Nitro Hum; what to do? What to do? If the setup right, the power of electric is WOW but usually only around 5 minutes of fun. Also, you still have to have the support equipment to handle large batteries. So with electric you also have to consider chargers, power supplies and generators unless you have AC outlets where ever you go.
Nitro on the other hand is about 8 minutes worth of fun, but then you have fuel at almost 30 bucks per gallon, tuning problems and cleaning the model afterwards.

So what's your poison?

Lastly, the build process in a very important! So, whatever you decide on, buy a model you have to build and not an ARF already put together.
If you are looking at a 90 size machine, you might consider a Rave ENV...

Hope this helps

[brent21]

Hey Kenny,

Here is my new dilemma. I am short on cash because of a new baby and budget cuts ( furloughs and such) in my job....(I am in education). My wife has told me she doesn't want me to get a nitro, so I think that may be out of the question. I am not sure of the larger electrics, mainly because of cost and I just sold my Century Swift 16 kit because it was too expensive to finish.

So my question is, would it be ok if I stuck to the 450 class helis? I really want a Rave 450, which is expensive, but is a quality bird that will last a long time. I already have an Esky Belt CP to "bash around" and I am getting a sim. Would the Rave be a good first heli build? I am looking at buying one heli that will be my "most important heli" and using the sim and Belt CP to practice on. What do you think?

Thanks,

Brent

[koolkrabber47]

Alright now.....kenny, that was the kind of informative answer i was looking for.......i have many more questions but , i don't want to wear you out, so let's narrow this down......i think you made a good point on gas v/s electric......although i like the convenience of battery power, our club field is on a medium sized city airport and installing a permanent power source and what not, would not be allowed, so this is very important to consider......i love my Axe 400 electric and even after i upgrade, i will not get rid of it.......it is the perfect size to fit in my trunk and i will carry it along for those short road trips with the wifey and use it at small ball fields and parks as permitted......the gassers don't bother me at all......some people prefer the cleanliness of battery power, as i do too but, i do still enjoy the mechanical aspects of a nitro engine and i don't mind fartin' around with them at the field.....at this point, i'm kinda leaning towards gas.......i've heard bigger is better, as far as stability and visibility goes but, how big is too big........50 or .90 nitro, disregarding price, which one would fit more into my style of general sport flying, not 3d......i know it sounds kinda crazy to invest that kind of money and not 3d but, i prefer a long, fun weekend of smooth, consistant flying and take her home in one piece.....forward flight, backward flight, a couple of loops and rolls and MAYBE some simple straight-forward inverted,too.......keeping my mentioned style in mind, .50 or .90 ???......BTW, i will be using the new X9503 2.4 ghz., will this be good enough?????.......we'll talk about servos, gyro, motor later, after i figure out which bird.......thank you in advance for being a part of these forums and willing to take a few minutes out of your day to help out......it will save me a lot of $$$ in trial and error......it's alway's nice to get it right the first time......Rave ENV,Huh????......i'll go check it out right away.......(KOOLKRABBER47).......

[Kenny]

Would the Rave be a good first heli build? I am looking at buying one heli that will be my "most important heli" and using the sim and Belt CP to practice on. What do you think?

I think you have a good plan here. I also think you may find yourself only flying only the Rave. This helicopter with 350 mains and a 4s setup is spectacular to fly. It fly's much larger than one would expect, it auto's great, the heli screams quality and the build is very simple. And not to forget, the 3D with this machine is off the hook! So the Rave gets my vote hands down.

[brent21]

Thanks Kenny....I think that is the route I may go with. I will take my time with the build to make sure everything is right.

[Kenny]

koolkrabber47

First off, as far as gassers, I know some guys that have them but I have never had any interest in gasser so I have never looked into it. They at least appear to like them a lot!

keeping my mentioned style in mind, .50 or .90 ???

From everything I have read it appears at least that your looking for a 90 size model. If this is the case, Curtis's Rave ENV should be out on the market for sale very soon. What I like about this option is you will be able to convert the nitro model into an electric model without having to buy a whole new kit. Front what I can see you will only have to buy a few parts to convert it. A really good way to be a part of both worlds.

One other thing I thought I would mention. Electric models use to be really expensive to maintain because of the cost of batterys, but it has been pointed out to me recently that the cost of owning an electric model has come down a lot. So if your considering an electric it may be possible for battery's to last longer with the right setup. I do not want to quote numbers because it is not my research but I can testify about the cost of battery's has come down tremendously in the last few years.

BTW, i will be using the new X9503 2.4 ghz., will this be good enough?????.......

Shoot yea, the 9503 will take you a long way.

[koolkrabber47]

Originally Posted by Kenny

koolkrabber47

First off, as far as gassers, I know some guys that have them but I have never had any interest in gasser so I have never looked into it. They at least appear to like them a lot!



From everything I have read it appears at least that your looking for a 90 size model. If this is the case, Curtis's Rave ENV should be out on the market for sale very soon. What I like about this option is you will be able to convert the nitro model into an electric model without having to buy a whole new kit. Front what I can see you will only have to buy a few parts to convert it. A really good way to be a part of both worlds.

One other thing I thought I would mention. Electric models use to be really expensive to maintain because of the cost of batterys, but it has been pointed out to me recently that the cost of owning an electric model has come down a lot. So if your considering an electric it may be possible for battery's to last longer with the right setup. I do not want to quote numbers because it is not my research but I can testify about the cost of battery's has come down tremendously in the last few years.

Shoot yea, the 9503 will take you a long way.

i have all JR radio's and it will be easier to go with the 9503 as i switch to 2.4........i can just replace all the receivers, all of my rx batteries are new as of last summer, i switched them all out from the stock 700mah. NiCd to 1,500mah. NiMh......i like the looks of the new 11 channel Jr, kinda futuristic,huh.....it's $200.00 more, not sure if i need that much luxury.......i'm looking forward to switching to the new 2.4, not just for the frequency but, also for the future of telemetry that's coming up right behind it......BTW, i been watching some CY youtube videos of the Rave ENV......Crazy, Crazy S**t he's doing.......inverted, high altitude auto's and he flip's her over at the very end and slides her in.......no other way to describe it......i got goosebumps.......

[jakeg1999]

Maybe I can chime in a little her Brent21, it sounds like for your situation I would agree that the Rave is your best bet. I too have had 20+ helis, and just about every version that Align makes, there are only a couple of brands I have not had but know enough about them from seeing them fly at the field. A year ago, I took a short break, selling all my helis but my Rave, and I am glad I kept it as I am just now getting back into it. The Rave is an amazing little heli. Setup on 4s with the 350 blades really does make it fly larger. It feels as good if not better than the T-rex500 I had. I absolutely love this heli, and can't wait for the 90 to be released. If I had to do it all over again or recommend it to a friend, I would say go with the Rave over the Align anyday. The one small concern is that the Rave is not as poplular as the Align, therefore parts are a little harder to find locally but are plentiful online. If you can be patient after a mishap instead of wanting to just run to the store then the Rave is your bird. One thing I have learned over the last several years, too much money spent, and way too many helis, is that save up and buy the better quality stuff the first time, because if you enjoy this hobby enough to stay in it, you will buy it anyway later. Quality parts and setup also make the flying experience much more enjoyable.....

Koolgrabber,
Again, I am right on par with Kenny here. I could not agree more with everything he has said. Let me share my opinion on the 50/90 decision....I personally love the 90's, and this is mainly due to my flying style. I love big air flying and some 3d. I love having as much power as possible. I love doing autos, and I love just about everything the 90's have to offer other than how thirsty they are. With that said, I would suggest a 50. I just got my first 50 in awhile this week, the new N9, and all I can say is wow! The quality of this heli is second to none. However, it does not build necessarily like a puzzle like the Aligns do. It takes a little more time, and there are a lot of fine tuning options. The tolerances are so tight that things can be a little challenging to fit together. I would certainly recommend this heli to those folks with experience who are looking to fly something just a little different than all the Aligns out there. So, what I would recommend, and again just my opinion, is go with an Align T-rex 600N. The electrics are nice too, but if nitro is not an issue, you will get more air time with the N. These helis are a dime a dozen, parts are at your local grocery store, they build like a puzzle, reasonably priced, and fly very very well. Coming from the Raptor days, the 600N's fly awesome. I have had 5 of them, 2 of which were flybarless, and they all flew great. Ok, why the 50? It's plenty big enough. The power to weight ratio is awesome but not as high as the 90. If you are not going to fly it hard, then you don't need that extra oomph. The 50 has plenty, autos great, great on fuel, cheaper to maintain, and a little less intimidating. If you are anything like me, you may move up to a 90 when the time is right, but I am so glad I started with the 50's.....just my opinions.....good luck!!!!

[brent21]

Originally Posted by jakeg1999

Maybe I can chime in a little her Brent21, it sounds like for your situation I would agree that the Rave is your best bet. I too have had 20+ helis, and just about every version that Align makes, there are only a couple of brands I have not had but know enough about them from seeing them fly at the field. A year ago, I took a short break, selling all my helis but my Rave, and I am glad I kept it as I am just now getting back into it. The Rave is an amazing little heli. Setup on 4s with the 350 blades really does make it fly larger. It feels as good if not better than the T-rex500 I had. I absolutely love this heli, and can't wait for the 90 to be released. If I had to do it all over again or recommend it to a friend, I would say go with the Rave over the Align anyday. The one small concern is that the Rave is not as poplular as the Align, therefore parts are a little harder to find locally but are plentiful online. If you can be patient after a mishap instead of wanting to just run to the store then the Rave is your bird. One thing I have learned over the last several years, too much money spent, and way too many helis, is that save up and buy the better quality stuff the first time, because if you enjoy this hobby enough to stay in it, you will buy it anyway later. Quality parts and setup also make the flying experience much more enjoyable.....

Koolgrabber,
Again, I am right on par with Kenny here. I could not agree more with everything he has said. Let me share my opinion on the 50/90 decision....I personally love the 90's, and this is mainly due to my flying style. I love big air flying and some 3d. I love having as much power as possible. I love doing autos, and I love just about everything the 90's have to offer other than how thirsty they are. With that said, I would suggest a 50. I just got my first 50 in awhile this week, the new N9, and all I can say is wow! The quality of this heli is second to none. However, it does not build necessarily like a puzzle like the Aligns do. It takes a little more time, and there are a lot of fine tuning options. The tolerances are so tight that things can be a little challenging to fit together. I would certainly recommend this heli to those folks with experience who are looking to fly something just a little different than all the Aligns out there. So, what I would recommend, and again just my opinion, is go with an Align T-rex 600N. The electrics are nice too, but if nitro is not an issue, you will get more air time with the N. These helis are a dime a dozen, parts are at your local grocery store, they build like a puzzle, reasonably priced, and fly very very well. Coming from the Raptor days, the 600N's fly awesome. I have had 5 of them, 2 of which were flybarless, and they all flew great. Ok, why the 50? It's plenty big enough. The power to weight ratio is awesome but not as high as the 90. If you are not going to fly it hard, then you don't need that extra oomph. The 50 has plenty, autos great, great on fuel, cheaper to maintain, and a little less intimidating. If you are anything like me, you may move up to a 90 when the time is right, but I am so glad I started with the 50's.....just my opinions.....good luck!!!!

Thanks for the input jakeg1999! Last weekend I was able to meet up with some of the heli pilots from my local club and all of them were flying 50 sized nitros. To me those helis were huge and intimidating! This makes me a little nervous because if I get an electric heli, I may not have anyone to help me. I have a little knowledge of electrics and how things work, but I am nowhere near being a master at electrics. So here is my question, do I "do what everyone else is doing" and get a 50 sized nitro or do I go with a heli I really would like and hopefully get some help from others in the club (i.e. electric airplane guys)?

[koolkrabber47]

....

Originally Posted by jakeg1999

Maybe I can chime in a little her Brent21, it sounds like for your situation I would agree that the Rave is your best bet. I too have had 20+ helis, and just about every version that Align makes, there are only a couple of brands I have not had but know enough about them from seeing them fly at the field. A year ago, I took a short break, selling all my helis but my Rave, and I am glad I kept it as I am just now getting back into it. The Rave is an amazing little heli. Setup on 4s with the 350 blades really does make it fly larger. It feels as good if not better than the T-rex500 I had. I absolutely love this heli, and can't wait for the 90 to be released. If I had to do it all over again or recommend it to a friend, I would say go with the Rave over the Align anyday. The one small concern is that the Rave is not as poplular as the Align, therefore parts are a little harder to find locally but are plentiful online. If you can be patient after a mishap instead of wanting to just run to the store then the Rave is your bird. One thing I have learned over the last several years, too much money spent, and way too many helis, is that save up and buy the better quality stuff the first time, because if you enjoy this hobby enough to stay in it, you will buy it anyway later. Quality parts and setup also make the flying experience much more enjoyable.....

Koolgrabber,
Again, I am right on par with Kenny here. I could not agree more with everything he has said. Let me share my opinion on the 50/90 decision....I personally love the 90's, and this is mainly due to my flying style. I love big air flying and some 3d. I love having as much power as possible. I love doing autos, and I love just about everything the 90's have to offer other than how thirsty they are. With that said, I would suggest a 50. I just got my first 50 in awhile this week, the new N9, and all I can say is wow! The quality of this heli is second to none. However, it does not build necessarily like a puzzle like the Aligns do. It takes a little more time, and there are a lot of fine tuning options. The tolerances are so tight that things can be a little challenging to fit together. I would certainly recommend this heli to those folks with experience who are looking to fly something just a little different than all the Aligns out there. So, what I would recommend, and again just my opinion, is go with an Align T-rex 600N. The electrics are nice too, but if nitro is not an issue, you will get more air time with the N. These helis are a dime a dozen, parts are at your local grocery store, they build like a puzzle, reasonably priced, and fly very very well. Coming from the Raptor days, the 600N's fly awesome. I have had 5 of them, 2 of which were flybarless, and they all flew great. Ok, why the 50? It's plenty big enough. The power to weight ratio is awesome but not as high as the 90. If you are not going to fly it hard, then you don't need that extra oomph. The 50 has plenty, autos great, great on fuel, cheaper to maintain, and a little less intimidating. If you are anything like me, you may move up to a 90 when the time is right, but I am so glad I started with the 50's.....just my opinions.....good luck!!!!

The more i research it,Jake, the more i'm steering towards a .50.......it's more than a big enough jump from the Axe 400, i'm flying right now......the Axe is great but, the 600N looks very promising......if i went with the 600E, what would be some advantages and what pitfalls if any.......an electric isn't completely out of the question, i could always stock up on batteries.......i mean that's what i do with my planes anyway's.......when i fly my planes, i take 4-6 planes at a time to the field and carry 4-6 batteries per plane of various capacities......yes, a .90 is the goal but, a .50 would still be a step in the right direction and the .90 would be right behind it......let me get the heli first and then we can talk about the set-up......you said you owned 5 600N's, so you are the best person to walk me thru when i get to the motor,gyro-governor,servos,etc......Align carries a number of heli's that come in combo's, do you think that is a good idea or wouild it be better to hand pick each component seperately.......Let me know, 600E or 600N, so i can start pricing and narrow it down......BTW, thanx for all your help......i know me and every other newbie appreciate it 100%.......take your time answering, i don't want it to cut into your flying/building........thanx again.......(KOOLKRABBER47)......

[jakeg1999]

Sorry for the delay, just got back into town from fishing.....As far as electric vs nitro, it's going to be more of a preferance thing. Overall I would say they are both equal, both have benefits, and weaknesses. There are a ton of discussions out there that compare the two. I won't go too far into it, but here a just a couple things.....Nitros are a bit messy, more equipment to carry to the field, although really just a starter and a fuel jug, vs batteries and a charger, so kind of a wash. Nitros can be just about as reliable as long as you learn to tune properly or have a little help. The right setup will run for ever. Electrics are usually just plug and play, however a lot of folks will tell you they have had issues with failures here too, so again a wash. There is more torque and more overall power available with electric setups. But this can and sometimes will lead to stripped gears and forced autos, but proper setup, tuning, and flying helps....Overall, here are my thoughts. More torque and power available for the electrics, and sometimes lighter if setup right. Cleaner, and more of a plug and play setup. Downside is batteries usually only last between 4-8 minutes depending on setup and flying style. Nitros have plenty of power, are a bit messier, although it's great for your bearings, and they have a flight time of 9-12 minutes depending on setup and flying style.
So, other than trying to decide between the two, which just do some more searching and get opinions from different folks. You will get supporters of both and haters of both, and overall will probably find a nice balance between the two. If you are already a predominant electric guy, then that may be a consideration. I know for me when I had my electric helis, I would set them up so that I could use the same batteries in my helis and planes, which saved me a little money.
As for packages and components, there are an infinite number of options out there, and there are a ton of great options now. One thing I have learned is spend a little more up front for the good stuff now, as you will probably buy it anyway down the road.....and, you will be able to notice a difference even if you are in the learning stages. Good servos make a difference, governers are extremely helpful, and there are a bunch of great gyro choices....I would be more than happy to help you outfit a new heli, also there are some great used package deals out there....please ask away, and let me know how I can help.....

[BenHeli]

Originally Posted by brent21

Thanks for the input jakeg1999! Last weekend I was able to meet up with some of the heli pilots from my local club and all of them were flying 50 sized nitros. To me those helis were huge and intimidating! This makes me a little nervous because if I get an electric heli, I may not have anyone to help me. I have a little knowledge of electrics and how things work, but I am nowhere near being a master at electrics. So here is my question, do I "do what everyone else is doing" and get a 50 sized nitro or do I go with a heli I really would like and hopefully get some help from others in the club (i.e. electric airplane guys)?

Get the heli that you like. Electric is not that hard to set up given that there are plenty of on line resources you can go to for answer.